ABA ADVISORY--Stop Tracking, Start Supervising: With Kamila Iacob and MentraTrack, Part II

ABA on Tap is proud to share a pour with Kamila Jacob (Part 2 of 2):

In this episode, we're joined by Kamila Iacob, BCBA, the co-founder of MentraTrack, to discuss the past, present, and future of ABA supervision. Tired of the administrative burdens and disconnected systems plaguing fieldwork, Kamila channeled her clinical expertise into creating a platform that empowers both supervisors and trainees. We’ll explore how MentraTrack moves beyond just tracking hours to focus on the soft skills that truly define a competent BCBA.

Episode Breakdown:

• The Problem with Paperwork: Kamila shares her personal journey from BCBA to tech innovator, detailing the pain points of fieldwork that led her to develop MentraTrack. Learn how she identified the gaps in traditional supervision models and how her platform was built to address them head-on.
• From Compliance to Competence: Discover why Kamila believes that "checking boxes" is not enough to prepare future BCBAs. We'll dive into the importance of developing clinical judgment, ethical reasoning, and professional communication skills that are critical for success in the field.
• AI in Action: We’ll explore the AI-powered features of MentraTrack, such as the SMART Goal Generator and Assessment Tool, and discuss how technology can make supervision more personalized and effective. Kamila offers a glimpse into how these innovations help supervisors focus on coaching rather than compliance.
• A Better Way Forward: Kamila outlines her vision for the future of ABA supervision—one that is scalable, connected, and focused on growth. She provides advice for both trainees navigating their fieldwork and supervisors looking to enhance their mentorship.

MORE ABOUT KAMILA:

Kamila Iacob, M.A., BCBA, LBA, is the co-founder of MentraTrack, a digital platform designed to streamline fieldwork, supervision, and compliance for professionals in applied behavior analysis (ABA). With extensive experience as a Board Certified Behavior Analyst (BCBA) and former Clinical Director, Kamila is committed to improving the quality of supervision in the ABA field.

Motivated by her own experiences and observations of the challenges faced by both supervisees and supervisors—including disorganized tracking, compliance anxiety, and time-consuming paperwork—Kamila was inspired to build a more efficient and supportive solution. MentraTrack evolved from this need, providing features that go beyond simple hour logging to enhance the entire supervision process. This includes real-time compliance checks, AI-powered goal generation, and competency tracking.

Kamila is a passio

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:10

Welcome to ABA on Tat, where our goal is to find the best recipe to brew the smoothest, coldest, and best tasting ABA around. I'm Dan Lowry with Mike Rubio, and join us on our journey as we look back into the ingredients to form the best concoction of ABA on Tat. In this podcast, we will talk about the history of the ABA brew, how much to consume to achieve the optimum buzz while not getting too drunk, and the recommended pairings to bring to the table. So without further ado, sit back, relax, and always analyze responsibly.

SPEAKER_02: 0:53

Welcome back to yet another installment of ABA on tap. I am your ever grateful co-host, Mike Rubio, and this is part two of our intriguing interview with Camila Jacob. Enjoy.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10

Hard, hard, hard. Your initial experience is more like academia clinic based, right? And then you said you went into the home, but first you were at clinic and then you went out.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18

Yeah, so the first BT position that I did in the Bay Area was clinic based, and I was so scared. Sure. Oh my gosh, we're we're at a clinic. I'm brand new. I don't know what I'm doing. I have to study for this RBT.

SPEAKER_04: 1:29

But at least the parents aren't there.

SPEAKER_00: 1:30

So if you mess up, then Well, I thought that was so odd. I was like, the parents don't come and work with us because in my mind, this is their child. We should be working together as a team. And they one of the BTs made a comment, I'm so glad the parent is not here. They're so hard to work with, right? And I'm like, really? You met them? Well, they do drop offs, but they constantly give me attitude or something. That's like a five-second interaction. Also, anyone can have attitude, right? So I did think that was odd, but then they uh split my session. So we would do some in-home and then some in clinic. Of course, I love the in-home.

SPEAKER_04: 2:04

I'm like, so what was that like going from so you started purely clinic and then you went in home? What was that?

SPEAKER_00: 2:11

I loved it. Yeah, I did. To me, I love community outings, I love school-based sessions. I did some school, like when the BT was at the school and I would have to go, and I don't have a lot of experience, and I think that's a completely different conversation on you know how to support staff and teachers because it's really hard. Um but the way that I saw ABA is we are in their environment, right? We are helping them and shaping their behaviors, and the parent needs to be there, right? Again, like you mentioned, we're there for such a short period of time. There's 24 hours in a day. Um they they need to see what's happening, they need to be involved. I'm not saying sit there next to me and hold my hand. Um, but I I need you to observe the session. I need the parent to understand what I'm doing. I I liked explaining everything I was doing. And I had some parents that were like, Are you done? I'm gonna go to my room, right? They were like, We we didn't do this before. No, so that was a hard yeah, that was a hard change for me as a BT because then I'm like, Well, am I overstepping? My BCB is not here, but I I have these parent training goals I'm supposed to run, right? And I would go to the parent, knock on their door, hello, it's can you come out and play with this for five minutes? That's how I was with start parent training sessions because I don't know how else to ask them. I was so new, and then they're like, Okay, yeah, I guess we can play. And then, you know, can we be done in like 10 minutes? I'm like, okay, yeah, I think so. We'll see how it goes. And I like to be very natural bass and really involve the parent.

SPEAKER_06: 3:49

Sure.

SPEAKER_00: 3:49

So it was a shock at first, and then you know, you have some parents that really don't like you in the home where they just prefer the clinic um to drop off the child, and some would voice that, and then some really loved it. Oh my gosh, I love having you in the home. It was just such a different um reaction I would get from each parent. Sure. But I do think that made me a very strong BT at the time because I was, I need to work with this parent, right? Because I would see certain behaviors, then the parent would come to me. Do you think there's a better way I could handle that? I love that question. Let's talk about it. I'm not gonna say you did something wrong, but let's dive into it. What can we do, right? What can we change? Um, and I think coming back to parent training too, when a parent is aware of their own behaviors, they have so much more success with um implementing certain interventions or you know, parent training sessions, whatever it might be, and then understanding their child's behavior. And I think that's a lot of a lot of clinicians forget that, right? It's like, oh, he has a tantrum, let's work on that. So much more beyond that. So much more.

SPEAKER_04: 4:57

Did you find it challenging though? So the clinic you've got the everything's set up the way you want in the home, there's so many more variables. Maybe grandma comes in or the room's not set up, or all they want to do is be on the TV. Did you find that challenging? Any any thoughts?

SPEAKER_00: 5:10

Oh, it was hard. Um, one of the homes I went to, there was no toys, and I brought toys, so then I was like, okay, maybe literally no toys. It was a very odd case. Um, they just didn't allow it because breaking toys throwing. I'm like, but uh we should work on that, right? And my clinician told me at the time, we're trying really hard, we're we're working on it, the clinic setting, but it's not their home, they don't have toys in the home. So the next time that they encounter a toy, they're going to break that toy, right?

SPEAKER_04: 5:45

So many DRIs as opposed to uh DRAs and ABA, just like eliminate the stimulus and then yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 5:52

This is my favorite story to share because at the end of the year that child had so many toys in their home. It was really fun and it was really great to see like the toys and honestly, just the play aspect of it changed so many other behaviors on top of it, like naturally, too. Um it just didn't have access to toys, and it was kind of heartbreaking to be honest. But um, the creativity part I would say was hard because the clinic provided a lot of the resources and toys and flashcards and all of that stuff. And then when you switch to a home setting, even if you bring those same toys, it didn't always work. Um, so then you have to get creative, and that's why I had to learn I need to figure out how to make these pots fun because the child enjoyed playing with pots. I'm like, we're gonna figure this out together and we're gonna get creative with this. And there's a point where there's like pots on my head, and I'm like, yeah, we're just gonna play with pots today.

SPEAKER_02: 6:47

It that's uh one of my favorite examples, too, because I think it's so easy to misconstrue once you've got a diagnosis, right? So the idea that my three-year-old is going through all the kitchen cabinets, pulling out the pots and clanging them together. Oh, well, that's what three-year-olds do. My three-year-old with autism is doing that. Now, this is a behavior problem. I don't know if you've encountered that kind of thing. And it sounds like that's what you were referring to, right? So, well, they're not supposed to be playing with those things. You're right. And then completely prohibiting them from playing with those things is only going to uh increase the motivating operation. Nothing like prohibition to uh don't do that. Oh now you're gonna want to do that more than anything.

SPEAKER_00: 7:32

That's how I am, too. Someone told me not to just I'm like, I'm gonna keep thinking about it because they told me not to think about it. Right, right.

SPEAKER_02: 7:38

Um and that's so hard sometimes, I think, too. Uh that the whole deprivation satiety to tell parents if you lean into this a little bit, I can't guarantee that it's gonna happen tomorrow, but they're they might get sick and tired of this. But the more they want to see it, they get a taste of it, and then you take it away, you might be, you know, that may be a self-defeating effort there.

SPEAKER_00: 7:59

Yeah. I think that speaks a lot to parent expectations too. Like when I would do parent training, we talked about what are your expectations when it comes to completing homework with them. Homework is my favorite. Okay, and then their first answer is well, I want them to do it correctly, and I want them to do it correctly the first time. No mistakes, not allowed, can't take any breaks, they must finish this before they go watch TV. I'm like, Well, if you told me to do that, oh, I'm gonna have behaviors.

SPEAKER_01: 8:28

Yep.

SPEAKER_00: 8:29

And I would explain that to them. This is a behavior that I would have, and then they, well, that's what he does. I'm like, yes.

SPEAKER_01: 8:36

I'm about to break my pencil, and it's not even my homework. I'm about to break it right now. Yeah, drop it on the floor, a little delay.

SPEAKER_00: 8:43

Expectations, but then also what's normal, right? Just a lot of parents have these conversations, like you mentioned, well, they're on the spectrum, so what they're doing is not normal. But then I have friends that are have kids that don't are not on the spectrum. They're doing things that are far way worse, right? Or doing things that this parent would say, Oh my gosh, that's not normal, right? But it's some things are just normal and it's part of childhood.

SPEAKER_02: 9:08

Yeah, tangible behavior, crying behavior, sibling rivalry, uh, you know, all of these things that are completely normal behaviors. And then, yes, you know, maybe the diagnostic traits add some additional complication to that, environmentally speaking. I get that. Yeah, but I think that you're highlighting something very important is that see the the normal aspect of what's happening before we jump to some conclusion that it's gonna be forever or that by allowing it we're reinforcing it, or that I mean it really breaks down our analysis, and now we're just doing you know traditional discipline stuff, which parents don't need us for. They know how to do that stuff already.

SPEAKER_04: 9:49

Expectations for sure. It's not the result, it's the violation of an expectation, right? So go into the grocery store, right? Maybe talk to parents about instead of buying all of your stuff with your kid, you're just gonna go and have your kid experience being in the grocery store and get two things, or with homework, like breaking it down of okay, what is the spectrum of things that have to happen? Okay, they have to sit down, maybe pay a little bit of attention, write some stuff down, write it down correctly, write it down correctly the way you want. That's like the tenth step down. Let's go back a little bit. Maybe they just sit down and draw on the paper. I know that's not what you want them to do, but that's where we're at. And then maybe they can draw like you know, something about yeah, shape, shape that up.

SPEAKER_02: 10:29

And that's and again, that goes against the parents' better plan, you know, a lot of times. So that just happened to me this past week, that same situation, um, where it was very clear in my observation that uh decoding and reading the instructions for the worksheet was really difficult. And so the parent was insistent that, well, if he doesn't do it, then he's not gonna learn. And I was like, mmm. But if you force him to do it, then doing the rest of the worksheet is probably gonna be that much more difficult. So how do you know how do you how to reconcile with that?

SPEAKER_04: 10:59

It's gonna start escalating, blood's gonna start leaving his brain, and he's not gonna learn anyway.

SPEAKER_02: 11:02

We're not learning anything, right? So that little chaining. I'm like, so these first two words were really hard for him. What if you had read those first two and then he finishes? What if you read the sentence for him and then he repeats it and then you read it again and then he tries? I mean, again, how do you get past that hurdle? And it goes back to then parents, and I can I can relate to that, you know, personally as a parent, the idea that I'm doing something wrong. Uh well, you're getting the undesired outcome. What are you gonna do differently and then see how that changes you know, the the child's behavior? And and that might not be your last stop. You might have to try something else. And the idea is that when you get to the finished homework and nobody, you know, threw a tantrum, not parent or child, or or the tantrum was short-lived, then that's when you'll know that you know you can take your data point thing, that felt pretty harmless and the homework's done. Let's try that again tomorrow. And then accepting that tomorrow you might be back to the challenges that you just overcame. So it's it's almost like this perpetual dance, you know. And and I think that's that's difficult for me to understand as a parent, despite having a background in ABA.

SPEAKER_00: 12:12

I always say parenting is the hardest job in the world. I mean it's really, it really is. It's a lot. And I think I read one of the my favorite quotes is it feels like hard work because you're doing the right thing, right? Um, and then the other, I think someone on the podcast said, like, if you're constantly questioning things, or if you're constantly thinking, or did I do this right, or did I not do that, or what should I do next? Like, you're intentionally focusing on being a good parent, which is extremely hard to do, right? And that's what a lot of the families that I worked with would tell me that too. This feels so unnatural. I didn't know that I needed to go spend time with them because we, I guess we never talked about it, or he he never told me that. And then the connection happened, and then the teenager magically started following some of the directions, and the parent is like, that's so interesting. I guess I would have never thought about it that way, right? So again, it comes back to report, pairing, connection. Um, so it's yeah, all crucial parts of parenting.

SPEAKER_02: 13:17

Giving those opportunities too, knowing that we can overstep as parents and and always be there ensuring the correct behavior happens, and that doesn't always generalize. You know, the idea that we um, and I'm sure you talk plenty about this, and parents are like, really? You you've got allow those failures. Without the failure, you're not gonna know what the correct steps are. So it's it's and the idea that to generalize, you're gonna have to sit there and watch sometimes and be like, are they gonna do it? Are they gonna do it? Oh, I don't know. Okay, they didn't do it. And then the answer is, does the answer now you go correct them? No, the answer sometimes you just take care of it yourself and you wait for the next opportunity. I think in ABA we've gotten very used to, um, and again, it's because of our uh very thorough structure, but the idea that we're gonna make the desired behavior happen every time, even if we have to physically prompt it. That causes trouble. I don't know if you've got any insight on that because it's not incorrect to provide that prompt, but you can certainly go too far. And I think that historically maybe we've gotten a little too far on some of those things. And again, we want the right behavior, the the desired behavior to happen so we can reinforce it because then it happens ten times and voila, then it sticks, right? And it generalizes it, but that's not true. It's it's much more gradual and rigorous. I don't know if you want to give any insight to that.

SPEAKER_00: 14:33

One example I have is with my daughter. I learned that sometimes she's very stubborn, normal, right? Sure.

SPEAKER_04: 14:43

Um gets it from her dad, of course, right?

SPEAKER_02: 14:47

Um today on ABA on tap, stubborn 17 month olds.

SPEAKER_00: 14:54

I remember I would say that to families I would work with, and at the time she was much younger, they're like, Oh, you you can like do like child development and playing with them at that they're so young. What can you do? I'm like, there's so much, and I enjoy it. I love it. It's so fun, like seeing her smile and laugh. Um, but she also wants to be very independent. There's certain things she wants to do, some are not safe, like certain things that she wants to climb, and some like with toys, and she tries really hard until she gets it and she gets frustrated, which is a normal response. I learn sometimes that I do let her just do it and she's able to do it. And then sometimes she's not, and she comes to me and I can tell that she wants help, right? And so then I model it, I let her know, oh, it looks like you need some help. Okay, mom will help you, right? And I think about situations too with clients when I was a B tier, when I was a BCV supervising, you know, BTs is certain moments I would tell BTs, I don't think we need to jump in quite yet, right? They can do it, they're not frustrated. It's I think it's more harmful if we jump in. Like when I truly see the client focusing on something, they they might growl a little bit of like, oh but that's such a normal response, right? Because I have seen a BT jump in and overhand prompting, it stopped the whole process, and the child is frustrated, or even children that are vocal that I love where they're like, Why did you do that? Right? They they have that right to say that.

SPEAKER_04: 16:24

Sure, yeah, because there's like a continuum on one end you have quickness, on the other end, you have independence. And so often BTs and parents are on that quickness side. We're late. Let's go, let's go, let's go. And we don't let people be independent. You got to run that next trial. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_02: 16:36

There's no Trick. That was she just rolled her eyes at me. I don't know if you saw that. Did you see that? See where it thought it gets. Now we know where that client got it from. Unbelievable.

unknown: 16:52

Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02: 16:53

No, it is so many little things. And again, as we talk about this, I understand why we do it. It's such good intent. And then what you're talking about is good intent really falls short here because we're not allowing for the independence. Um maybe we'll quiz you as a mom here. So so your daughter's doing the inset puzzle and just not quite getting it in there, and she goes, ah, she throws the piece. That's clearly a big problem behavior, right? Or you're saying no, you can leave that alone.

SPEAKER_00: 17:26

She's frustrated. She throws a lot, you guys. She throws everything right now. I'm like trying to figure out the best bottle to give her because she drinks out of a stainless steel bottle, and she chucked that at me so hard, and I got a bruise, and I had to be like, I can't react. She wasn't even throwing it at me. It just landed on my foot.

SPEAKER_04: 17:44

She gave her a football or a baseball or something. Then she gave me a bigger one.

SPEAKER_00: 17:46

She really loves throwing right now. There you go. Um, yeah, we have a lot of balls that we throw. There you go. Golf balls. She has like a little golf um golf mini pink set that she plays with, and she doesn't use the actual club.

SPEAKER_02: 17:57

She, you know, just throws the ball away from the TV. Thrown out of frustration as well as just exploration. Yeah, I think that's a good thing. I think that's good to mention.

SPEAKER_00: 18:06

I think so too, absolutely, because I I know she's not gonna throw forever, right? So the puzzle actually has happened many times where she not she hasn't even tried it yet. She's like, don't like this one, don't like that one. Nope, not interning that one. And then she's like, Oh, I like that one. I'm gonna put this one in. Um, so there's times where, you know, I have asked her to pick it up where she continuously throw it, but we make it like a fun game of like, oh no, the cow fell by the cup. We must save it. So I go and we save the puzzle, right? The cow puzzle. And then she goes and gets it, and she's so excited, and I'm like, okay, let's see if we can find where we can put the puzzle back, right? And then she's looking, and I love the scanning. It's like the best thing to see as a mom. I'm like, she's really scanning, it's so sweet. And she's looking for it, and then sometimes she'll, you know, put it in the right place, and then sometimes she's like, I lost attention. She's so young. She's like, What's next?

SPEAKER_06: 18:57

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00: 18:58

But there's moments where I'm sitting with her and I'm playing. She does throw, she's just like a quick throw, and it's not harmful in the moment. And I think some parents forget that, where they're like, My child must not do this behavior, where sometimes it's just not harmful, and like you mentioned, it is normal too.

SPEAKER_02: 19:13

So the idea that you you see that happen, and maybe you peer over and she's secure, nothing's gonna harm her, she's not gonna break anything. You may not say anything then. Yeah, and that's so difficult, right? I mean, I know as a parent, my my daughter's doing great. She does one little grunt and what's wrong? What's going on? Now I'm paying attention, now I need to fix it, you know, whatever it is. And it's back to that, that just that stimulus, the idea that that sound, I am hardwired to see it as distress. I clearly have to go save something. And I think that happens to all parents. And then ABA says, Well, wait a minute, what's the function here? Developmentally, is it okay for a child to get frustrated that they're putting things in and then they can't do it? Somewhere in there is a motivating operation to try again, right? That's what the energy is. We say that with sportsmanship a lot of times, right? Like this force, well, go say good game. And well, somewhere in that poor sportsmanship, it's a really strong competitive drive. And just teaching them to say good game isn't gonna fix the. But how do we harness that? And I think that's what you're talking about. These are very normal behaviors, personality, normal emotion, temperament, whatever we want to call it. And a lot of times, especially I think once we've got a diagnostic in place, we start correcting those things. That's a hard, maybe that's a whole other episode, but how to distinguish between those behaviors or how to what how do you what do you tell a parent about that? Like ignore that one. Oh, you better pay attention to that one.

SPEAKER_00: 20:41

That's a hard dance. Like a whole textbook. It's hard. It's very better get started. Yeah. That's your next project. Perfect. I'll be here.

SPEAKER_04: 20:49

So your first project, you said you kind of really got interested in parent training, and then you created a curriculum. How did the where'd that come from? How'd you create the parent training curriculum? What take us back to then.

SPEAKER_00: 21:01

So PowerPoints loved it. I learned that when I was presenting with a PowerPoint in person, parents were more attentive. So I'm like, okay. I'm like, they like the visuals, great, they like the examples. Sometimes I would add like a little action on the PowerPoint slide.

SPEAKER_04: 21:17

Oh, get this animation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 21:19

Yeah. Um, so then what I started doing is like the basic knowledge of ABA, explaining basic terms, right? And letting them know I know this is a bunch of technical jargon. Ignore that part and just trying to explain to you this part, but we're gonna go over it in a realistic way. We're gonna do some real examples, right? Um, and then explaining the process of what that parent training session would look like moving forward. And I talk a lot about expectations from me as a clinician, right? And what I'm looking for from parent training and letting them know this relationship is so important to me and crucial. So if you don't like something, you're not satisfied with an intervention, I want us to communicate and I want us to be respectful and professional, right? And then I talk about all these other policies when it comes to, you know, being disrespectful, harassment, all that stuff. Because you have to nowadays. Um, I've had BTs that were harassed for no reason, right? Or I had parents yell at me, cuss at me. I had parents that were like, I never want to do ABA ever again, right? Sure. Um, and it's just a lot of misinformation that were happening between the BT or vice versa. So with the PowerPoint slide, I started off with what is the first thing that parents need to know, right? So I would start there at the visuals, then I slowly go into the more detail, then I go over the programs that they're actually doing because it's a lot on a report. It's so hard for a parent to read that. And I've had parents tell me that like this is a lot. It's like 30, 60 pages, and you expect me to review that. And I constantly would go in and ask, Do you have any questions? Let's review it together. And someone sometimes would take me so long. Um, and then I figured out a better way, PowerPoints. So it was just like Yeah, it was I had way more success with it. And parents, again, were just so much more attentive. And then I would have homework assignments for them and I would say I know, and I would tell that's the parent. I know, I know it might must feel like you're in school again, but I have homework, the BTs have homework. You as a parent have homework too, because we have to do this outside of the session. It's extremely important. And I was very honest, you know, if we're only doing the work here in a two to three hour session and you're not able to do it outside of session, we're going to see very little success, right? We might have the stimulus control of like when the BT comes in and behaviors perfect, right? But then when that BT leaves, what happens? Right. So a lot of honest conversations. I would let parents know if you don't like my PowerPoint slides and you want me to do it in a different way, I'm more than happy to do it. And most of them said, I'm okay with PowerPoints because sometimes they just say that, right? They don't want to make you feel uncomfortable. And then I had one parent say, like, Do I have to watch the PowerPoint slides? And I'm like, You don't have to. What you what do you want to change it to? Whatever you'd like. She's like, I just want to sit face to face and have a conversation. And I said, That's perfect. If that's what you want, that's okay. So I had some parents that, you know, didn't want the PowerPoint slides, which is okay. Right. And when I did the parenting specialty job, I had parents where I was sharing PowerPoint slides, we're going through examples. And then some parents were, it's a 45-minute session. So it goes by very quick. Sure. It's once a week, every week. And sometimes we just talk for 45 minutes back and forth, back and forth, going over examples and interventions and understanding behavior. So that was really successful for me because then I had a clear outline of what I can do when I have a parent training session, right? That's one thing I hated is not having a clear system and an organized system.

SPEAKER_06: 24:54

Sure.

SPEAKER_00: 24:55

And that's what helped me. And then I would share those PowerPoint slides with my trainees, and then they were able to modify it to their clients as well. And then I figured out about the Ruby curriculum when I was in Washington.

SPEAKER_04: 25:06

Can you talk to that?

SPEAKER_00: 25:08

Yeah. So the Ruby curriculum was so interesting because the first time I opened the book, I'm like, oh, this is so much better than my PowerPoint slides. I'm like, wait, okay, so this is what I do, but this is so much more detailed because I had the homework assignments already included in there. And then they had reflection questions for parents, which that's something I didn't do with all parents, which something I learned is really important as well. So they had basically chapters that you go through. Now you can skip some chapters, um, depending on the parent. Like there's a chapter on AC devices. Um, so you wouldn't run that if the client is not using an AC device. Um, and you would go in, I read the book like three times to make sure I really understood it. I would go in, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna test this out. PowerPoint slides were still helpful at that time because it's a book. And then the parent has a workbook that they have on their side. So they have the explanations of everything that we have reviewed, and then they have quizzes and homework assignments as well. So with parents, what I would do is every week we would go through each chapter. Some chapters took two sessions because they were longer. Um, and we would just go through examples, have a really big conversation, how it applies to their child and the programming. And then I would walk them through the homework assignment.

SPEAKER_06: 26:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 26:26

Now you can imagine there's a barrier of will they complete the homework assignment, right? With any, whether it's PowerPoint slides, it doesn't matter, anything, right? So then I gave, I would have a conversation with parents of what is realistic for you? What is achievable for you to complete? You're busy, you're a working parent, right? And even if you're not a working parent, you have other children to take care of for and you're doing all of these other tasks around the house, right? It's hard for a parent to be like, let me grab this piece of paper and write down what I just observed or whatever the homework assignment might be. So we would figure out a plan and try to stick to it. And if they couldn't, we figure out the barriers and then we talk about the barriers, and it's a whole different parent training session. Then we talk about how can we overcome those barriers, right? So I love the Ruby curriculum. I mean, it's been a while since I used it because I've been off work for gosh, has it been two years? No, yeah and a half, maybe?

SPEAKER_02: 27:21

Well, you're developing the alternative too. They're gonna become competitors, strictly competitors, right? So we'll get to that. It's okay.

SPEAKER_00: 27:29

Um, so yeah, the Ruby curriculum was great. And then I would train my trainees on it. And they I will be honest, they found it a little bit intimidating because they felt like they had to follow this specific curriculum. And I let them know it's there to support you as a resource if you truly don't know where to start. Because it the I think the first chapter is ABC data. It talks about interstate in behavior consequence, it talks about behavior. What is observable, what's what is measurable? It has a little table for parents. Um, so for some trainees, it was extremely helpful. And I I loved it. I don't know if you guys used it before.

SPEAKER_02: 28:02

I am not familiar with that.

SPEAKER_00: 28:03

I will bring the book. Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 28:05

We're really happy to learn about it for sure. Absolutely. Yeah, we created our own, but yeah, I would definitely be interested to have that. That sounds that sounds awesome. Um so you went from training parents to both training parents and staff. So we had an episode called RBT Person or a Service. I can explain more, but before I do, do you have any thoughts on that? What is the RBT? Is the RBT a person or a service?

SPEAKER_00: 28:30

That's a great question. I would say both. It can't be one.

SPEAKER_04: 28:36

What do you why why would you say that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 28:38

Well, they're providing the service, but they're also a person, right? Providing the service? Such a question.

SPEAKER_02: 28:46

No, so I think it, I mean, where it comes from is um if uh you know, once you start providing medical services, running an agency, there's a lot of pressures outside clinical quality and service quality that come in. Um so one thing that comes in would be uh subs for sessions. The idea that um it makes a lot of sense for generalization and otherwise, that if an RBT assigned to a case gets sick and somebody's available to go run their session, they can do that. Uh, when we first got started, that was one of the excuses for having such a structured approach, is so that it could be replicated, but you know that there's variations from person to person anyway. So that's kind of where that comes from, is this idea that and I think we agree with you. The RBT provides a service, and then maybe in your opinion, what do you think of in terms of the humanity of the RBT or the importance of their consistent presence in a case toward outcomes? Or do you think it's as easy as interchangeability? Because it goes both ways, right? I mean, it would be great to have such a structured approach and such well trained RBTs that anybody could pop in there and do the work, and then I was talking about. Having PT myself, you know, if I get a call and it's like, hey, your PT's out today, do you want to do a session with this one? I'll wait till next week. I'm good. I'm sure that person's great. And I'm sure they're going to teach me something different. But there's a rapport. There's that dirty R-word again. There's a rapport I've got with my PT, and I'm going to wait because I'm just familiar and it feels better. And I'm that's a hard question for us as service providers. You want the consistency, you want to give the client that consistency. And at the same time, throwing somebody that's different to them might end up just a rapport building session, which is fine. But then that means that you know you can't quantify the data for that day, perhaps. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04: 30:41

Because I came from a um our the first company we worked at, uh, one of the the heads out when we were talking, because I was the trainer at that company. And I remember she said the RBT isn't a person, it's a service. It should be interchangeable, meaning anybody should be able to go out there and and run it. And I think they kind of looked at RBTs as interchangeable, which I think a lot of companies kind of do, to be honest with you. Um look at it as just, well, they leave them, we'll put another one in and another one in. So they kind of had that idea of it's not the person that's the RBT, it's the service around what they can deliver is the RBT. First, another way to look at it is then RBT is that person, and there's values of that specific person and that consistency. So I was just curious your thoughts of do you do you think it's more of the service of like anybody should be able to go out and run it, or do you think it's more valuable of that rapport of that one particular person? Any thoughts?

SPEAKER_00: 31:33

That's such a good question. I've never been asked this before. So thank you. I love that. So when I think of an RBT, right, first of all, they're the frontliners, right? They're doing the hard work. Yes, the BCBAs are doing the hard work too, but they are with the child directly, right? Every day. They are the ones with the parents. When I think of an RBT, I think of they're part of the team, right? With the parent, caregivers, grandparents, aunties, uncles, teachers, speech therapists, the BCBA. So this is gonna sound so bad, but there were situations where I preferred a certain BT not to come in if the other BT was out. And it was not the best, I would say, in terms of, you know, we need to run those sessions, right? They have the hours for it. But I knew the client and I knew the parent, right? It the session would have been worse with the other BT. Not that that BT was not experienced. This was such a complex case, and I think there's a lot of these complex cases that can happen. I think, like you mentioned, yes, if another BT is subbing the session, they are focusing mostly on just building report for that session, right? And sometimes parents get frustrated about that.

SPEAKER_02: 32:50

They're not doing anything, they're not doing anything or the child had behavior, forget that RBT, they're no good.

SPEAKER_00: 32:56

And then they're not giving that RBT a chance either. And it could have ended up being a great RBT, right? Good point, good point. So I just think it depends on case by cases, but I don't think you can replace that BT on the case, if that's what you're asking, because it's a very special situation. That BT has worked so hard to build rapport with the client and then the parents, and that's so special and crucial to have a good team on the case, right? So then again, when you have those situations when another BT comes in and they're just building rapport, I've had parents that were frustrated, like, oh, I feel like we just went back like 10 steps because for a whole week they were just building rapport. And I understand where they were coming from, right? I was lucky that they were open to a subsession, and then you have some families that are like, uh-uh, I know my child, my child's gonna give a hard time to that BT. It's and then you have BTs are saying, Well, they need to get used to new people too.

SPEAKER_04: 33:54

Which there's truth to that, right? I understand it's gonna be in that child's life. Yeah, that it's tricky, right? Yeah, because there should be a level of generality, otherwise, we're not designing ourselves out. But on the flip side, it is a person at the end of the day. Yeah, so it's true. I mean, like a phlebotomist, right? Like if you're getting blood drawn, like it probably doesn't matter too much. Like I've when I was going through all my surgeries and stuff, you'd have various people, doesn't matter too much.

SPEAKER_00: 34:20

But a therapist, like I was gonna say therapist.

SPEAKER_04: 34:23

A therapist, like you probably wouldn't want to hear, like, oh, I've had the last 40 sessions with Susan, uh, Johnny will cover. It's like, no, I'll just wait till Susan comes back. So we're somewhere, an RBT is somewhere in that spectrum. Um, and they're it's when we get a authorization, right? It's not like Magellan gives us 50 hours with Johnny RBT, they give us 50 hours of 97153 that can be allocated to any RBT. Um and it's I I think it just poses an interesting quandary because the generalization is important, but then on the flip side, sometimes it seems like companies utilize that to make it a revolving door for parents, which the rapport's never fully built, and then the ABA sessions aren't successful, and then it reflects poorly on actually the field of ABA because the parents aren't gonna be like, oh, Johnny's company isn't good, they're gonna say ABA doesn't work.

SPEAKER_05: 35:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 35:13

Yep. I think we just uh answered our own question there. It's why people don't they just say take the sub, right? Can you imagine having to consider all these circumstances? And waiting, that family and we've done a little bit of that in the past. So you know what, that family's not gonna take a sub. Uh that family will take a sub. Uh, hey, let me know if there's gonna be a sub because if I happen to be available, I can go support that sub. Um, you you mentioned a lot of, I think the, in my opinion, the correct answer is the idea that you're gonna take a family by family, client by client. The the notion that you might have sat with that family at the beginning of services or before that sub is out and saying, Hey, I'd like to try a sub. Guess what? This session might be a disaster. So let me prepare you for that. But in that disaster that you're gonna be observing, these are the key points that we're gonna be pulling out of there, right? The idea that uh now somebody can like if I send a good RBT in there, they're nice experienced one, they're gonna be able to teach you a different strategy or technique for de-escalation or how to deal with the refusal or all those things, um, which again could be valuable, but would take so much time to it's also hard for the clinician to prep that sub.

SPEAKER_00: 36:25

Sometimes it happens the same day. And then I remember when I would get a scheduling um notification like, oh, this BT is gonna go and fill in. No, that BT cannot go in that like I that it needs a lot of prep work discussing that client with the BT. And then that BT comes in unprepared for that session. It's so unfair.

SPEAKER_04: 36:44

And the prep work is probably gonna be unpaid for a lot of companies now because you only get paid the direct time.

SPEAKER_00: 36:49

But it's illegal in California.

SPEAKER_04: 36:51

Every minute must be paid when it's tied to correct, correct, for sure. Uh a hundred percent. It's not gonna be reimbursed by the funding storage. So the companies even have to. Which a lot of companies are not gonna eat that.

SPEAKER_02: 37:03

Uh and we're talking about making an effort to replicate, right? Which is yes, it makes sense that somebody goes in well-versed, and then on the other end, it could be look, you are our uh you know, sub, you're our substitute for the company. The notion that we might be able to train an RBT to get used to just going in cold to those situations, having prepared the family to say, look, they're just gonna get there just gonna be a new person in the environment that's gonna try to engage. That's it. And yes, this session, we admit, might look really different, but it's necessary in terms of future subs toward consistency. If there's a staff change, we can't guarantee that this person's gonna be here forever. And again, as I say this, so much to plan to make it successful, but maybe it's worth it. We'll talk about it in the near future.

SPEAKER_06: 37:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 37:51

So that that was like your your history and kind of how you got here. So talk to us about your new company. Yeah, talk to us about kind of where you're at now, what your goals are, what your company's gonna look like.

SPEAKER_02: 38:01

Yeah, you're gonna be re-released into the ABA Wild soon. What's the you know, what's the plan here?

SPEAKER_00: 38:07

It's it's exciting, it happened all so fast. Okay, talk to us. But it really validated that we're solving a pain point, which I knew that we were. It's just our field is so niche, and it's a small field, but it's also a really big field, right? It's hard to explain to people that are not in the field. So I told my husband, I'm passionate about parent training, I'm passionate about supervision. I want to create a software. I know that you can do it. You're extremely he runs a whole engineering department, he's the smartest person I've met, honestly. And I knew that he could do it. Um, and he told me, okay, design this, tell me what you want, and what are you looking to solve, right? That's important to him to understand what is how is this software going to help people, trainees, organizations, and VCBAs. And we had a lot of conversations, nights, her nap times on weekends. We were talking about it, designing it together. And then it was time for him to code, and he got to work. Okay, created the software. Our first version was very interesting. It was just for tracking hours, and I looked and I said, I don't want to be another tracker. There are other trackers that exist, right? Um, Ripley was a great option to come out because it was um transitioning people from spreadsheets and it was the first digital platform to support ABA fieldwork. I don't want to be another tracker. There's one that already exists, right? So I told him I want it to be more than that. I want the whole fieldwork experience to feel supported for both trainees and BCBAs. I also want organizations to have this system because they will need to scale as their organization grows, right? I don't want the trainees or the supervisors to pay for it if they're part of an organization. And we know the organization can help support that, right? Especially if that's something that they care about, which we're piloting with organizations. It's really exciting. Some are really big and some are small. Um, it's scary at first of like, oh my gosh, this is all happening. There's contracts going on and legal documents, and it we're going all in. And for them to come back and say, we've been looking for something for fieldwork department, which makes me so happy to hear that they have a dedicated department for field work and supporting their trainees. And these are the bigger organizations. So they they want to do that for their employees, which is great. They don't want their trainees to feel left out, they want them to feel supported and really focus on the mentorship aspect. So when I told my husband, I don't want to be a tracker, I want to be something more. It started out as a tracker where the trainees can um collect their fieldwork hours and put the data, right? And then we had a supervisor dashboard. So we have three dashboards. We have the trainee dashboard, the supervisor dashboard, and then we have the organization dashboard. And that's been the most exciting part is to provide organizations full visibility and knowing where is each trainee with their hours, how much supervision is that BCB providing? Are they actually providing quality supervision? Are they providing goals?

SPEAKER_04: 41:18

How do you uh test if they're actually providing quality supervision?

SPEAKER_00: 41:21

So that's a hard one, right? And that's something that I want to figure out. Okay. So we have a lot of conversations with my husband because I want, I tell him, I want to be able to change how we provide supervision in terms of quality supervision because it's it's not good right now in the field. And I've seen it, right? I've seen as a clinical director, I've seen it when I was in Washington, and no one knows, right? Like my supervisor's boss didn't know what he was doing, or vice versa. And it was really hard and difficult to know like I'm not receiving the quality supervision that I know I need to be.

SPEAKER_04: 41:56

Sure. So the trainees not gonna know the person delivering it, of course, they're gonna think they're giving qualities.

SPEAKER_00: 42:02

Yeah, yeah. So we're gonna work towards it really hard. I'm really focusing on goals and feedback. And we were the first platform to integrate AI into ABA field work. So that was really exciting for our users. Um, we launched our open beta in March. So we're still in open beta because it's free right now. Anyone can use it.

SPEAKER_04: 42:24

We might talk to you about that with our company. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 42:26

Yeah. And we really wanted to focus on, I want to build the best platform to support both sides of supervision. Um, and a lot of our users are like, when are you gonna start charging? Like, just tell us, I want to know the price. And then we have organizations that are like, we want this like later on, whatever you need to do, just tell us. I'm like, okay, great. They love our platform, which is good. Um, but there's so much that we've added. And one of the first AI features that we added is AI goal generation from BCBAs on the supervisor dashboard. And what we focused on is when I was a clinical director, if I have a newer BCBA who has difficulty writing a goal for a client, they're going to have a difficult time writing a goal for a trainee.

SPEAKER_06: 43:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 43:11

And I saw that it was so helpful for trainees to have a written goal for them to understand what they need to do in terms of examples and specific objective data. We follow SMART um criteria alignment in our AI goal generation. So it doesn't replace clinical judgment, right? When the supervisor goes in and generates the goal, they need to write the level for that trainee. So um, like let's say they're beginner, intermediate, or advanced, the time frame of how long that goal would take. And then they need to input the primary focus area and then any supervision support that they may need to add.

SPEAKER_06: 43:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 43:49

So let's say the primary focus area is parent training. Sure. Right? You can be short, but we know that with AI, the better prompt that you give and the more information that you provide, AI will work better with you, right?

SPEAKER_06: 44:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 44:02

But we designed it so that it does support clinicians who have a hard time of like they're staring at a Word document. What, how can I write this goal for this training? It could be a soft skill, it could be time management, right? Okay. It could be professionalism, whatever it might be. Um, so but let's say it's parent training. They can put parent training and then our AI will generate two goals. And you look at those two goals, it's very descriptive. Um, it has the description, measurement criteria, supporting resources. The clinician can upload their own resources as well. So that's where I mean I want to provide more features to support on how we can really view and prove that they're providing quality supervision, right? Because you could just write a goal.

SPEAKER_04: 44:45

Well, that was my question. Yeah. I mean, I would see this with BCBAs or school IPs, right? They'd be like, Johnny struggles self-advocating. So we're gonna write a goal. Johnny will self-advocate on 80%. It's like, well, without any procedure behind it, like just because you write a goal doesn't mean anything. Just because the the potential BCBA is late all the time. If I write a goal about it, doesn't mean they're gonna stop being late. So do you have some supports in addition to like help on the back end uh people fulfill those goals?

SPEAKER_00: 45:11

Yeah, so right now we don't have those specific features. I've designed a few ideas for him. It's it's a lot. I have a lot of big ideas, but I wonder if there's a way for AI to pick up on trainees' progress with those goals and really show that are they truly working on that goal? But most importantly, is that goal actually helping them, right? Is it actually supporting them as a trainee to become a competent clinician in the future, right? And I think AI can get really creative and tricky. He has a lot of experience with machine learning, so he would be a better person to ask these questions. It is it's really exciting. Um there's a lot you can do with AI, but again, like how do we support in a way where it's fast, but also doesn't replace clinical judgment, right?

SPEAKER_06: 45:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 45:55

So with the goals, again, it connects to smart criteria alignment, and you'll see it when I give you a little demo, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_06: 46:02

Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00: 46:03

You'll see how it aligns to each criteria, and then it also provides like a rationale of why this goal is important for the trainee, um, which I think is helpful for some clinicians to know of like, well, why are you providing that goal, right? Um is this what you actually wanted?

SPEAKER_02: 46:18

I wonder if time of engagement on the system, as well as like edits done to the what AI generates, might be a way to measure that, right? So the idea that you can at least quantify that they're spending time on it and they're not just replicating what gets spit out from the machine. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 46:34

That's interesting because our feature, after the goal is generated, there are three sections there. You can click on improve how specific it is. That's improve measurability.

SPEAKER_06: 46:43

That's probably a good route.

SPEAKER_00: 46:44

And then the last one is improve uh overall refinement.

SPEAKER_06: 46:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 46:48

So when I was testing it, I was refining it like 10 times. I'm like, is this just gonna keep getting longer? Are you actually gonna be good at providing me the best goal for this trainee? And it does get more detail, it provides more examples, which can be helpful for trainees. Like if it's a parent training goal, specific examples of when a parent ignores your question, or when a parent constantly jumps off topic, these are the things that you can say to redirect them back to the conversation, right? So very specific examples there too. This is version one. Like when I designed it, there was at least five versions. So it was a lot and exciting. I'm like, I want all the versions released now, but it's it's hard work developing a software. It's I will be honest, it's more than I expected, but it's been so amazing to learn. And I've never imagined myself and developing a software, but it just felt right with my husband, and it's been an amazing experience. And the second aspect that we have for AI is the test content outline. So oh, for the BCBA test. Yep. We don't want to replace study prep. That's not where I wanted to go. And our users know that they love it, they use it multiple times a day. It's really nice to see the data. But um the reason why AI is involved is it generates a new set of questions every single time to really give the trainee a new set of questions and to practice. And it gives a domain breakdown of like, oh, you did great in section B. Um, this section you need to improve on, continue practicing in this section. Um, it's a very heavy scenario based and it has different difficulty levels that they can choose from. So there's beginner, intermediate, there's expert level. My husband was excited to add that, and he was like, Camilla, you need to test this one. And I was getting like PTSD from my board exam. I'm like, oh, this is a lot. I'm not trying to take another board exam. But I would say one of the best, you know, features that we have that's all connected. So supervisors have full visibility into everything that the trainee has on the trainee dashboard. Okay. We also have automatic form generation. So for those monthly forms, final forms, everything is generated in the dashboard and it syncs to the supervisor dashboard. Oh, cool. Signing takes less than a second. We're heavily focused on compliance checks for each requirement. We were the first ones to roll out for the 2027 requirements, which I was so passionate about because the BCB was not giving me a clear answer on some of the requirements. Um, and then they finally released the 2027 newsletter of the transition guide, right? I'm like, okay, now they have all the answers here. They probably were annoyed with how many times I was contacting.

SPEAKER_04: 49:33

So it was you, thank you. That's why they never answer the phone. And they have a phone number. They do? They really do, right? Oh, they do now? I answer? No. They've never when I was getting my BCBA, you could call them and then you couldn't call them anymore as an email, and then you took it up. Okay. I haven't tried in a while. Maybe maybe they do. I'm sure they do.

SPEAKER_00: 49:53

It's an email for me, like the contact forms, and then I wait patiently.

SPEAKER_04: 49:57

Yes. Yeah. Yes. So that's exciting. So is your market more to organizations who are going to use this? Is your market more towards the people about to accrue their hours that you want them to kind of uh get membership? What uh what is your market?

SPEAKER_00: 50:12

And where do they find you also?

SPEAKER_04: 50:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 50:14

MentraTrack.com.

SPEAKER_04: 50:16

Oh can you spell that please?

SPEAKER_00: 50:18

We will put it in the the show notes, but M-E-N-T-R-A-T-R-A-C-K.

SPEAKER_04: 50:24

MentraTreck.com. It will be in the uh description. Check it out.

SPEAKER_00: 50:29

Yes, thank you. Um, so it's for trainees who are collecting their hours, right? So for field work, whichever pathway that they choose, the concentrator or the supervised pathway. And for trainees who we have a lot of them to transfer it over from other platforms. I had a trainee that transferred over 800 hours.

SPEAKER_06: 50:50

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00: 50:50

And one of the interesting cases that we had is once those hours were transferred, she noticed how some of the months were non-compliant. There's no platform that checks for compliance and does the compliance checks to ensure that you really are meeting those requirements each month.

SPEAKER_06: 51:06

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00: 51:07

So that was really exciting because I wanted that piece of like, I don't want the trainee to stress about it or the supervisor and to be able to have the data to support that. So, for example, it would say like you're out of two out of four supervision contacts, so you haven't met the requirement yet because you need the four contacts, right? Um, or the minimum 20 hours. Um I'm talking about the older requirements specifically, but now the hours have exceeded 160, or now they're 160, um, which is great for some trainees. But so our goal was organizations. So for organizations to support their staff that are in the field work process, right? We have a lot of single users, they find us organically, which is great. I think we're number two on Google search now, so it's really exciting. It was hard work to get there. Like marketing is something I had to learn. And it was it was new for sure because I was not part of like social media before and doing all of this online stuff. And you know, I have to be on LinkedIn, and sure, I have a community that we're growing and talking to each audience. Um, so they find us through Google search, and then a lot of them were referrals, right? Okay, which is really exciting because that means people are talking about it. So the organizations are our biggest pilots right now that we're piloting with, and then something exciting happened. We had universities reach out to us.

SPEAKER_06: 52:29

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00: 52:30

So then that really supported, okay, now we are supporting universities, and that was a whole different ball game because they are collecting their fieldwork hours through their university, right? But then some of them are also receiving those remote BCBA supervision companies as well. So that was interesting to work with. Um, so I it kind of happened really fast again, but it's been exciting. We're again, we're still in open beta and we really focus on the feedback that our users are giving us. And with organizations, it's a little bit different because they have the organization dashboard. So that's where you know the executive team can have access and have full oversight of their team for trainees and supervisors. And they have things of like, where are they in their process? Are they, you know, at the beginning stage, the second stage, third stage, fourth stage? Um, what's the estimated completion date for each trainee? So we have a table that displays that it takes the average data for that month that the trainee is collecting hours and it will say like estimated completion date for, I don't know, August 2027 or something. Um, and then it also shows how many supervisors are actually approving hours for their trainees because we have an approval flow that we've built in. So every trainee that submits an entry, it actually goes through an approval flow through their supervisor.

SPEAKER_06: 53:54

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_00: 53:55

And that data does not count towards their total hours until the supervisor approves it. And that has been one of their favorite features.

SPEAKER_04: 54:02

Awesome. Sounds cool. Yeah. I need to get back in the BACB streets, man. Blah, blah. I'm so everything's changing. Uh I know. I need to check the stuff out. I I've done this for the last uh 12 years in my various companies. I need to get back because we have we have an RBT, our one RBT is actually in the SDSU B C B A program, just started. Um, so she's asking me to sign a contract, so I need to get back into the uh the streets to find what I'm what I'm signing on.

SPEAKER_00: 54:28

We might need a good system.

SPEAKER_04: 54:30

We're gonna talk about that talking about that. Yes, we will beta test that for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 54:34

And I can tell you like talking about this. Would it surprise you to know that we're almost at two hours?

SPEAKER_01: 54:41

That's amazing. I love that. I love that. I love chatting.

SPEAKER_02: 54:45

Well, no, good. And that's that's the whole point here is we we, you know, a lot of times people approach us and say, Oh, do we bring this presentation, this publication? We're like, we just want you to talk.

SPEAKER_05: 54:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 54:54

Talk about what you're passionate about, and it was very clear that you love what you're doing, you're excited about your project, and we're very happy to have had the time to hear it directly from you. So thank you so much. Um before we wrap up, maybe just one more time. Anywhere that you want people to find you, go ahead and mention it now before we wrap up. So, Mentor Track, anywhere else that you might want people to find you at the moment?

SPEAKER_00: 55:18

We're on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_02: 55:22

Name it.

SPEAKER_04: 55:23

All under Mentor Track.

SPEAKER_00: 55:24

Yep. Okay. Yep.

SPEAKER_04: 55:26

Cool. Cool. Uh we will definitely stay in touch outside of this about collaboration because we could definitely use your software for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 55:33

Super exciting to have a local guest and sit in in person with them. So thank you so much for giving us a part of your Sunday afternoon here and beautiful day. Now we'll get back to it.

SPEAKER_00: 55:43

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 55:44

Do you have uh the wrap-up? We need our wrap-up, Dan.

SPEAKER_04: 55:46

So yeah. Um incorporate parents.

SPEAKER_02: 55:48

Incorporate parents.

SPEAKER_04: 55:50

Uh ethical and compliant supervision.

SPEAKER_02: 55:53

Anything else? And always analyze responsibly. Cheers. Thank you so much. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03: 56:01

Always analyze responsibly.

SPEAKER_02: 56:04

ABA on tap is recorded live and unfiltered. We're done for today. You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. See you next time.