Behavioral Wellness: Creating Functional Change for Families and Schools With Dr. Tranika Jefferson (Part I)

ABA on Tap is proud to present Dr. Tranika Jefferson, BCBA-D (Part 1 of 2):

In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Tranika Jefferson, PhD, BCBA-D, LBA, IBA, a distinguished doctoral-level Board Certified Behavior Analyst and the founder of The Behavioral Wellness Academy. With over 16 years of experience in the field, Dr. Jefferson has dedicated her career to understanding the "why" behind human behavior and using evidence-based Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA) to improve lives.

Key Discussion Points:

• Holistic ABA Therapy: How Dr. Jefferson uses ABA to increase functional skills—such as communication and social play—while minimizing challenging behaviors like aggression and tantrums.
• Advocacy & Leadership: Her role as a speaker at the 2026 Black Women In Behavior Analysis Appreciation Day (BWIBAAD) conference and her work in fostering inclusive communities.
• Community Impact: Her commitment to accessibility, including the implementation of sliding-scale fee systems and partnerships with schools to support families who lack insurance coverage.
• Professional Journey: From her academic roots at Prairie View A&M University to her PhD from The Chicago School of Professional Psychology, Dr. Jefferson shares her passion for mentoring future clinicians.

Dr. Tranika Jefferson is a native of Bryan, Texas, and a recognized expert in treating autism, intellectual disabilities, and mental health disorders. She is a three-time grant awardee for behavioral disability care and currently serves as a consultant to schools and community-based organizations in the Houston metropolitan area.

Connect with Dr. Jefferson:

• Website: The Behavioral Wellness Academy
• LinkedIn: Dr. Tranika Jefferson, PhD, BCBA-D, LBA, IBA
• Instagram: @tranikaj26

*ALWAYS ANALYZE  RESPONSIBLY*

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to ABA on Tapio with Dan Lowry. So without further ado, sit back, relax, and always analyze responsibly. All right, all right. Welcome back to another installment of ABA on tap. This, the first episode of our seventh season. I am your ever grateful co-host, Mike Rubio, alongside with Mr. Daniel Lowry. Mr. Dan, good to see you. Happy New Year, sir.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

2026, season seven.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Woo! To think back, all of the all of the progression, all of the things we've been through. We actually published our first episode to kind of fill in at the end of the year there, and I was hearing back, and uh, we've gotten better at our sound, we've gotten better at our flow. It was like listening to something out of the 80s. It was kind of weird.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Better at our guests. Now it's just not you and I talking the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Yes, yes. And uh, quick shout out to our partner, Suzanne Judgewick, for setting all of these guests up. Super excited for what we have to present to you all today. We've got a business dynamo, we've got an ABA dynamo to talk to today. Somebody who has her own company has a couple of companies, I think, that she's running, is involved in mentorship and uh public speaking engagements, and you might see her on Metropolitan News if you're in the Houston area once in a while. But today, ABA on Tap is proud to present Dr. Tronika Jefferson. All right, Dr. Jefferson, how are you?

SPEAKER_03 1:59

I'm good, I'm great. I'm happy to be here with y'all.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Thank you so much for your time. We like to record on the weekends because we keep a busy weekday schedule. We're sure you do as well. So we're really grateful that you would give us a couple of hours of your weekend time, and we promise this will be an engaging conversation, and we'll get you right on your way. So two hours tends to fly pretty quickly here on ABA on tap. We like to start with the origin story. One of the things we really enjoyed about speaking with guests is learning about all the different things people do and then how it all culminates into what they're doing now. And I it tends to see it seems to be that people keep all those pieces. Sometimes in happenstance, it's not all planned out, but it all kind of comes together very nicely. So without further ado, tell us everything about your origin story, how it all started, bring us right up to the present, and we can go from there.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

Oh wow, it seems like it was so long ago how I got started. I feel ancient, like collector's item, like very, very old.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Yeah. Antique, uh priceless, uh, high value. There you go. Come on.

SPEAKER_03 3:02

Yes, yes, yes. That's that's a better version of it.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

I do hiring for our company, and sometimes I see I hire people that are born in the 2000s, and then I feel very antique as well.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

Yes, yes. That's how I am when I'm hiring now. Just like they're 22.

SPEAKER_04 3:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:18

It could be my son. Okay, so how I got started in the field of ABA.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Or wherever you want to start. Again, I we tend to see that people have uh different things that culminate into their current ABA practice. So go as far back as you're comfortable.

SPEAKER_03 3:36

Yes, so I am from Bryan College Station, Texas, and that's where the Texas AM Aggies are. So when I graduated from high school, I went to Prairie View AM University, which is right outside of Houston. And there I got a bachelor's of science in criminal justice specializing in juvenile justice, a degree that I've never used.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

I saw that. I was gonna ask you about it, but maybe I won't now.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Well, I knew I wanted to work with kids.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

So I guess a little bit as it relates to the juvenile justice aspect to tie into where I'm at currently right now with working with kids. So I guess in some type of capacity, it's somewhat relevant. I would say so, sure. Primarily, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

I I feel you. My mom was in juvenile justice and I was getting a psychology degree. And I, when I got into the ABA field, I was actually looking for juvenile justice jobs, like working in corrections and stuff for kids, and ended up going into the ABA field. So kind of similar.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

Yes. And so after I got my bachelor's, I wasn't ready to be an adult, so I stayed and got a master's. And so my master's is in juvenile forensic psychology. So my initial plan was to be a forensic psychologist.

SPEAKER_04 4:51

Oh, wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

So yeah. So after graduating with the master's, I needed a real job. And so that's where my ABA career started. I worked at a state-supported living center in the Houston area. And I did that for about eight years. I end up managing two of quote unquote what was called behavior units, and about 60 plus clients. They were all adults. And so how I started in the field isn't like the traditional in an ABA clinic, working with kids, sitting down at the table doing DTT. It was basically just FBA and behavior support plans, working hands-on with a psychiatrist for medication management. My clientele that I had was the most aggressive that were there at the state supported living center. So I did a lot of physical restraining on a daily basis. It's where I got burnt out because you know how you're a high performer is like, okay, well, you know, send them to Trinica. Like, you know, they're very aggressive. They're trying to employ from the facility, you know, they're they're trying to kill themselves and other people. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Send them to Trinica. She'll do a good job.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

Trinica will fix it.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

Yeah, like that the dumping ground.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

That's what you uh high achievers get for being good at your jobs, you know. So you just get more work.

SPEAKER_03 6:07

Yes, exactly. That's an issue.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Um so you were you were you got your master's and you said juvenile forensic psychology? Did I say that correctly?

SPEAKER_03 6:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

What did when you were in your uh studies there, what were you thinking you were gonna do with that degree? Like what were what were your hopes and dreams at that point in time?

SPEAKER_03 6:26

I was gonna be a forensic psychologist, I was going to like work for the CIA, the FBI, I was gonna be on behavior minds, I was gonna be on TV.

SPEAKER_04 6:35

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 6:37

And I'm assessing, you know, all these criminals' behaviors, like the high profile cases that's on the news and you know, that's around the world. That was gonna be me.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Okay, okay. It still could be.

SPEAKER_03 6:49

It still could be, yes, yes. I'm I'm working my way there. You know, the the year, five-year, ten-year plan, it may have something to do with that.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

I took an abnormal psychology class when I was in psych, and I know a lot of people that that can be one of people's favorite classes, like some of the abnormal stuff, though, which I imagine would go kind of down the forensic realm. Do you have any things that stick out with you from your studies in the forensic realm that just really stick with you today or things that you found really interesting or like to share or talk about?

SPEAKER_03 7:21

I really don't. It seemed like that was so long ago, and I've been so heavily invested in the the ABA world. It's only so much information I could keep in my head at one time.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

So I don't remember anything from back then that really sticks out with me right now.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

One more question, if you don't mind. So you said that uh they would send you the really challenging, potentially most aggressive individuals. Was that because you were willing to take them, or was that because you ended up somehow resonating with these individuals and getting them kind of to calm down a little bit and integrate back into the facility that you were at?

SPEAKER_03 8:02

Well, it started because when I was first hired there, I was hired to work on one of the most aggressive homes. That's just the available position. And so from kind of being thrown into the fire, you you learn like the skill set that it takes to be successful in your position and to be able to provide some type of significant, you know, behavior change or you know, skill increase with the clients that I was working with at the time. So I didn't know any better other than like how to work with them. It's like if I would have gotten thrown to a a home that you know had clients that didn't have a lot of behavioral issues or didn't require, you know, as much support, then I would have thought that that was a norm. True, my norm was yes, doing behavioral intervention every single day, sometimes restraining if the behavior plans didn't work, talking to the psychiatrist, maybe they needed a chemical restraint. Sometimes they would call the police, the police would be there. And so having to talk to the police or the fire department, all the things.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Wow. Are you familiar with the company called Proact in terms of crisis management and restraints?

SPEAKER_03 9:11

Not so working at those types of facilities, they had their own specialized um restraint de-escalation training. So for years, I know they've changed it recently, but for years they have what they call PMAB, which I forget what the acronym stands for now. I know that they don't do it anymore, but throughout most of my tenure there, it was either like handheld restraint or like basket hole with the arms across the chest, all the way to take down horizontal restraint where the client is laying on the ground and there's two staff, one holding the top, one holding the bottom. And then also though, we have mechanical restraints as well. So kind of like you would see those old school cycle work movies where someone, yep, the hands and the feet are attached to the bed. Yeah, I used to have to do that too.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

I just asked because my nine to five job is working for the company called Proact, which is very similar to CPI or safety care. It's de-escalation and you know, up to restraint. And we work with people from you know, hospital wards, group homes, residentials, law enforcement, like all ABA facilities, all schools, all sorts of things. So we encounter a lot of people on in that job that are are dealing with things um very similar to what you were dealing with, and it really resonates too when you talk about a trial by fire. I'll share just a really short story and then I'll pass it back to you all because I know I've done a lot of the talking here. My very first ABA case, I had no experience about ABA or anything like that. The company I worked with did a really nice two-week training where there was, you know, we were learning about play, and they had occupational therapists come in and residential therapists, and we had this really nice like daycare setting, and I was like, Oh, cool, this is what ABA is. And they're like, Okay, Monday, you're starting with this kid. Uh, he's actually upstairs, and this was on Friday, the last day of training. Your supervisor's upstairs, go introduce yourself and learn what you're gonna do on Monday. And I was like, Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Hi, Dan, good to meet you.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

So I went upstairs, and this gentleman, again, this was 20 years ago when I first started an ABA was in a room, a small room with nothing in it, was unscrewing the light bulbs and like screwing in plastic so the individual couldn't take out the light bulb and break it. They were putting plastic over the windows, like wood on the walls, and I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait. What is nobody said anything about two weeks of training, nobody said anything about this. What is welcome, what is going on here? And that individual was a very large individual that learned at his school that if he was assaultive, that they would send him home. So whenever he didn't want to do stuff, he got assaultive. And that was my very first experience in ABA. So when you talk about trial by fire, I I hear you on that.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

I recall saying, Dan, the student's gonna come in, and if he tries to break a window or punch you, it doesn't matter what happens, we can't send him home. Because he's he had developed that escape contingency. He just that's what he would do. He'd get on site and anyway. Let's get back to you. So you were talking about burnout, and we understand why now a little bit. I guess that I'll I'll jump right back in with a question. So it you were working with a pretty diverse population, or were these all individuals on the spectrum? Was there some sort of diagnostic substitution here? It sounds like you were working with more than just autism at this place.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

Yeah, and ironically, I didn't even know about autism at the time. It wasn't so this was back in 2009 to 2000 to 2016 that I was there. And so I think I may have had two clients that had autism. And I think at that time, I think the their diagnosis was labeled as pervasive developmental disorder. NOS Yes, and Asperger's. And so, yeah, so all the clients there had comorbid disorder, so they had an intellectual disability and any other mental illness. So I worked a lot with clients that had schizophrenia, bipolar, and then they were either mild, moderate, or severe, at the time profoundly retarded. But of course, we changed the name to you know intellectual disability.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Yes, yes, yes, of course. Wow. So that's uh I mean that's a that's a mixed bag with all due respect. That's a lot to learn, and I guess a lot that has stayed with you. You sort of mentioned mental illness. I know the idea of mental health is going to be part of our conversation here in uh the near future on this episode. So we want to learn a little bit more about that. In terms of ABA procedures, protocols, techniques. So then you mentioned DTT. That wasn't necessarily something you were implementing with all of these residents at this place. What so schizophrenia bipolar, how does ABA play into that treatment?

SPEAKER_03 14:00

Yeah, so there, so basically at the Safe Supported Living Center, these are adults and they live there. They do all of their everything there, they work there. It set up like a kind of like a big college campus, uh dormitory style. And so there's there was a horse arena, you know, animals, that they they it was a workshop, everything that basically you need in life was there, all the supports, all the different types of therapists, the medical staff, vocational, residential, everything was there. So my role was exclusively just for behavior management. And so I would do the FDA, write the behavior plan, and then train the direct care staff on the implementation of it. So it wasn't your clinical traditional ABA type of programming that most people get in the clinic. It was like, hey, this is what you do to minimize the behaviors, this is what you do when the behavior occurs, here are their reinforcements, and yeah, just strictly the behavior intervention component.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Okay. And what did you draw those strategies from? Was that in your previous studies in college? Was that just good intuition? Was that trial and error? Like when you're expected to write the plan, yeah. How did you decide what the plan was gonna be?

SPEAKER_03 15:15

So maybe I should reverse. So when I first started there, it wasn't for an ABA job, it was kind of like, oh, you may want to learn ABA because we're giving you the toughest caseload here. And I'm like, what is ABA?

SPEAKER_04 15:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:29

And so at the time, the state was reimbursing us if we wanted to take ABA courses. And so they had a partnership with University of North Texas, and so I was just like, okay, well, you know, this sounds cool. It's something that I, you know, would want to get into. And then you're gonna give me my money back. Great.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

And so I started taking classes in it because my master's is not in ABA, juvenile forensic psychorse. So I had to take the postgraduate courses in order to test with the BACB.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 16:00

And so by the time I was going through my courses, the state ended up changing it to where they were paying up front for us to take the courses just to make it easier and a smoother process. And so, with learning, of course, ABA, as I'm doing ABA, it was a lot, but I've seen how beneficial it could be. Of course, us in the ABA world, we we know that you know it's scientific and how much improvement it can make in individuals' lives. Yeah. And so basically, once they would get there, just recording data, doing the ABC data on like these are, you know, the current behaviors that need to be addressed and kind of just going the traditional ABA route with the FBA component. But some of the some of the clients, they either came from another state supported living center and they were being transferred. So already had, you know, a good work and behavior plan that they were already familiar with doing, or they may have came from home, or they came from a group home, or they may have come from jail or a psych hospital. So depending on where they came from, would be contingent on how much information I initially had before they got there to be able to train my staff on, like, hey, you know, this was the previous behavior plan, or from the meeting, you know, with the caregivers, these are the behaviors that, you know, more than likely we they may display here.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Gotcha. Yeah, I guess because what I was getting at was I think what we found is a lot of times the people that do the most effective ABA are actually the people that started in a different field and had a lot of skills and strategies and then got the ABA, kind of like you said, uh rather than starting an ABA and that was just all they knew. So yeah, I was the trying to get at or curious about those things actually before ABA, kind of where your your thought processes were, because I'm sure those manifest now in your delivery of ABA, your pre-ABA strategies.

SPEAKER_03 17:47

Yeah, I feel like it does. And I always tell my interns to basically be make sure that you're well-rounded. Don't just get stuck in an ABA clinic, don't just get stuck working with kids, don't just get stuck, you know, working with clients that have autism. Like, even if you don't end up liking it, but like especially like the younger ones, is like while you're still young, if you have the opportunity, like branch out, like consult for group home or maybe be an adjunct professor, get yourself out of like that straight clinical like setting because you never know what you're gonna like if you don't try it. Right.

SPEAKER_04 18:23

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

And so, like, some like, oh, well, I only want to work with kids, but you never work with adults. Like, how do you know how you know you won't like that?

SPEAKER_01 18:29

What what was the age range at this facility?

SPEAKER_03 18:32

They were all adults, all adults, okay, all over 18.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Okay. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

I think my oldest client that I had had there was in their 70s, and I actually ended up going to two funerals of clients that I had there because they were not to say that they were that old, but they were older, you know, in age to where they naturally passed away.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Wow. Wow, that's that's remarkable. So super interesting that even, I mean you know ABA and autism can sometimes seem, you know, paired all the time. So even as early as 2009, it's refreshing to hear that somebody was doing applications that were outside of autism treatment. That's that's amazing. That's really good to hear. So tell us a little bit more. Uh, we we kind of interrupted your origin story. You were talking about burnout at this place. Where where uh where did uh your career take you thereafter?

SPEAKER_03 19:20

So afterwards, I started working for Rethink, the software company. Okay, and so I was a professional development specialist or something along those lines. And so what I would do was train the special education department, the ones that actually had a contract with Rethink. And so I would go around Texas and sometimes other states, training the SPED teachers and pair professionals on basic AVA skills and strategies, but primarily on how they could use the software in their classroom, specifically how to do their behavior intervention plans and then also how to record the data and of course make the progress reports. And so, yeah, it led me to rethink. I was at Rethink for about two and a half years until I got tired of traveling. I feel like some people like highlight, like, oh, I travel for work, like it's so cool, but I was just like, I'm burned out. I'm tired of living outside inside of airports and other people's beds. Well, that sounds bad.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

We know what you mean. We know what you mean. Hotel beds. Hotel beds. That's funny. So that's that's quite a shift then from that facility to then rethink. Did you find that you had to learn a whole bunch of new things in terms of the technology that must have taken your skill set to a new level? Tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_03 20:41

Yeah, so when I was at the State Supported Living Center, I mean it was so old school and you know, the funding is always scarce at those types of places. We did just Excel, Excel paper data, yeah, and you know, the the the big binders with data sheets from you know decades ago.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Yep, been there. Very familiar.

SPEAKER_03 21:01

Yeah, so it was a transition over to rethink, but it was a good transition. And the transition to Rethink, even though the the job at the State Supported Living Center was, you know, became a complete burnout. I really appreciate that job because it it basically created and made me the BCBA that I am right now because I learned to work in teams, I learned to work with groups, I learned to work with different personalities, you know, that didn't mesh. I learned to basically grow my passion for ABA. And so the transition outside of the State Supported Living Center to Rethink was strategic for me because it also built still the same the BCBA that I am today, because I took that position and I wanted it because it will give me a platform to be up in front of people to talk and train, which was a weakness of mine because I hated public speaking. I didn't want to be in front of people talking, very kind of introverted. And so I know in order to grow as a professional. And the route that I wanted to take my life, I was going to have to be in a place where I felt uncomfortable and do the things that make me uncomfortable if I wanted to professionally grow. And so that's what Rethink did for me was giving me the platform to be up in front of people. Everything that I say, I may jumble my words, I may get short breath and all the things, but it's like, okay, well, I'm not looking for perfection. I'm looking to set myself up for success, even if it's not right now, but it's the long-term goal. So now when you see me on the news or on different panels, it was because I strategically place myself in positions that will basically force me to learn the skill and to get more comfortable with doing it. And yeah, that's what brought me to rethink. And I actually, you know, enjoyed it until I was like, okay, I'm I'm I want to be in my own bed and I want to be at home.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Right, right. So what a what a cool shift from adults to then now special education students and classrooms. Again, quite a shift, quite a learning experience, I would imagine. Tell us a little bit about that, the new things you had to learn and familiarize yourself with. And I imagine that you so you had completed your ABA coursework through UNT and while you were at the facility, and then so you came fully board certified to rethink, or were you still working on that?

SPEAKER_03 23:18

Oh no, I was already fully board certified by that point. I've been certified since 2014 and I started Rethink in 2020, 2016.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

And then with Rethink, were you like kind of a salesperson? So they would call you and you would explain like the benefits of it, or were you more like they had already bought the program and you were gonna show them how to use it?

SPEAKER_03 23:40

Oh, yeah, I'm not the worst salesperson. I cannot sell you know water to a dry mouth person. Like you give me any inkling that you do not want something, I'll do okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Okay, that's fine. That's me.

SPEAKER_03 23:51

Yeah, terrible salesman. Not in sales. I was just an implementation person. So once it would already bought, then I would go out and train and then also provide additional supports and resources, do webinars, anything basically that will help keep the the school district, basically the client wanting to keep us.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Yeah. So super refreshing change, maybe a little less taxing in terms of work, but more taxing in terms of travel. Fair to say.

SPEAKER_03 24:23

Yes. I mean, both in an aspect physically taxing, because at the state supported living center, of course, I would have to restrain clients that were very highly aggressive. I've been on antibiotics from clients biting me. I've had my orm in a sling, I've had my hair pulled out. And so it's kind of it ended up being one of those jobs where you know you you pull up and you're in your car in the parking lot and you're sitting there like, I don't want to be here. Like, what time do I get off?

SPEAKER_01 24:50

Can I call out?

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 24:52

How fast can 5 p.m. come?

SPEAKER_02 24:54

I just want to work at Walmart and just check out and not think at work. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 24:58

Yes. And it was like, you know, people that are in the ABA world that are trying to be board certified or, you know, working on their masters or working on their hours, specifically if you're working at a job there, you get like a large pay increase. But like currently, right now, you don't hardly make anything. It's just like, oh, I need to get like this certification so I could actually like make some money because what they're paying me now and what I physically have to go through, like this math is not mathing.

SPEAKER_02 25:27

So I have a question with Rethink. So since you were on the implementation team, was how often would you say somebody ran into an issue and was like, hey, this this platform doesn't have this? And like you then brought it back to your team, and then Rethink like changed the way that they did things, or was it pretty much like this is what it is, let me let me get these people within the platform? I'm guessing like how malleable was it at that time? Was it just like this is what it is, or was it a lot of back and forth between you guys and the c customers?

SPEAKER_03 26:02

So my input on that as far as if there was a client that, you know, either the software did something that it wasn't supposed to do or the client was wanting something that the software didn't do, I would just refer them to like, you know, most softwares have like a help link, like a little chat box.

SPEAKER_04 26:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

I was like, hey, you know, if there's ever any technical issues or any recommendations that you have for the platform, you could always use that chat box to chat and send in your recommendations, you know, there.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Was it frequent that you ran into questions that you couldn't answer and then had to refer them out, or was it pretty robust in that, like, oh no, we have this built into the platform somewhere. Let me just show you where it is.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

From my experience, um, I didn't get a lot of that. I think it was more so because a lot of times the teachers weren't using it to the capacity that they should. So they didn't have those questions to ask because they probably didn't want me to be there basically having them do additional work because they didn't want to. They were really, from my experience, some of the teachers were stuck into the realm of I just want to basically write my narratives, my paragraph. Now you're here wanting me to basically use an additional system on top of all the other systems that teachers have to, you know, utilize and use, and you want me to do extra work. And so those conversations and those questions didn't come about just because it was like, okay, we we don't want to do this anyway.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Right. That makes sense. The reason that I asked that is, you know, we we did paper and Excel for a long time and have transitioned over our various companies through electronic the last you know 10 years. One of the first things that Mike and I ran into, and I'm kind of curious about your thoughts about this, is so electronics certainly made the data taking easier, and they were like, hey, you can do this, and look, it'll even make your goals and like it'll auto-master your goals and stuff like that. And I'll just use Central Reach as the first one that we used. It was a great platform. In no way am I uh throwing them under the bus in any way. But what we found was that in some ways it went from making things so they kind of took how ABA was run and they made a platform with it to make ABA easier to run in clinics and things like that. But then we started have to kind of not have to, but we had to adjust our clinical stuff to kind of make the the platform. Because they were like, hey, if you use the VB map, it'll automate your goals and everything like that. But we were like, well, what if we don't want to use the VB map? Well, it's designed to do things in this way, and we found an interesting kind of dichotomy between it making things easier versus us now having to change the way we clinically practice to allow it to make things easier. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that, that kind of balance between technology and clinical coming from you know both sides of things.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Yeah, I I can see where you're coming from. So from my experience, I would say it was always a balance for me to not be too ABA with the jargon and with the focus because these were, you know, teachers and you know, they weren't trying to be BCBAs. Yes, they were, you know, in the SPET department, but their more so focus was okay, I need, of course, I want to decrease behavior and I need progress notes and you know, or I may not need certain components of this system. And so part of what I took on was trying to show them how certain things could be beneficial for them.

SPEAKER_04 29:42

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 29:42

So, for example, in Rethink, they had like a curriculum library. So it's like you don't have to reinvent the wheel, even if you don't use the full program that's in here, at least you could get ideas. So, like trying to get them to see different components to increase the utilization, because we looked at that as well, as far as like, you know, are they actually utilizing this program? How many times are they logging in? How many data points are they collecting? And so I know from like the the sales and the marketing perspective, they're looking at like all of those numbers because when it comes time to like renew that contract and the school is like, well, my teachers aren't using it anyways, like it's low utilization. So basically, you know, we're not gonna renew. And so what I would try to do is like, okay, well, you know, if even if you're only logging in a few times out the week, or your kid can log in and do there was a client interfacing component as well.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 30:34

They could utilize that part. And so for me, it was more so like sometimes if I feel like it they didn't see the benefit of the whole clinical part and you know, the behavior intervention from start to finish, because it's a it was a whole lot of steps to actually get to the create the full plan, just kind of minimizing the clinical part to see like, okay, well, what part will they attach to?

SPEAKER_02 30:57

That makes sense. So it's like, how can we allow you the least amount of effort to get the most amount of data and get this IEP done so you can be with the other kids?

SPEAKER_04 31:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Okay, so let's uh well I'm gonna get us back on track here. So you got from the state facility, you're seeing a whole diversity of diagnoses, and now you're in special ed, more particular to schools. Maybe this is not your first introduction, but now you're learning a little bit more about autism and what that looks like, say, in education. Where does your career path take you next?

SPEAKER_03 31:30

So, next, I went to the Harris Center for Mental Health and IDD. So it's basically the mental health authority for Harris County, which is Harris County, is the biggest county in Houston. And so I went to basically work in a smaller ABA clinic in a mental health organization.

SPEAKER_04 31:50

Oh, wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 31:51

So what that looks like is like it's of course all mental health, and then it's like a small component of it is like, oh, there's a small ABA clinic in addition to everything mental health is going on.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

Now, this is kind of for expansion. I think we went through a similar experience. This is sort of an existing mental health facility or or program or agency, and they find out about now insurance mandates and insurance reimbursing for autism treatment. So they kind of branch out. Is that fair to say?

SPEAKER_03 32:19

Yeah, so basically all things mental health.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 32:21

So of course there were psychologists, licensed clinical, social workers. It's a huge, huge mega organization.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

Was the ABA side of things just autism specific? Or was it for everybody within the mental health?

SPEAKER_03 32:38

No, it they had to have an autism diagnosis in order to qualify for the the program that I was in. Gotcha. So yeah. So the program that I was in was called PBS Positive Behavior Support. Okay. And so I ended up being over that program as well. And so I would keep probably between six to 12 clients. We did more focused ABA. And so not the full comprehensive. So what my typical day would look like was within a week, each client had one hour, once-a-week sessions. And so that would be conducted by me and my RBT or behavior technician. And so that would either be via telehealth in their home or they would come to a clinic.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Okay. And that was your first experience like supervising RBTs and doing the kind of more, as we would call it, traditional ABA where you got the B C B A, RBT client, that kind of thing?

SPEAKER_03 33:31

No, actually, I usually keep uh a few side gigs in my back pocket. Nice.

SPEAKER_04 33:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:37

So the State Supported Living Center, that was my first full-time job with doing ABA. Rethink was my second one. But in between, like any full-time job, I've always done other stuff.

SPEAKER_04 33:49

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:50

So I had also did contract work with an ABA clinic where I was the clinical supervisor. And then I would, you know, go out once a week to supervise the RBTs that were working in home.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

Gotcha. Gotcha. So you had a little familiarity.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

So you so you know you've known throughout what it's been to be uh new at the uh treatment table. Right from the you're very I I always like to talk about ABA, especially now in the medical realm. We're still pretty new to the table. Uh we're maybe maybe sometimes we sit at the kids' table, but you've had that experience throughout where ABA has always been sort of a part of the treatment, but not the mainstay, still sort of taking a backseat to the traditional psychology, psychiatry methods. Is that fair to say?

SPEAKER_03 34:33

Yeah, it was very fair, especially when I was at the the Hair Center, because it wasn't, of course, regulated by the ABA world. And so when I got there, like I'm creating like the templates for FBAs and for the behavior intervention plans and for you know the intake meetings because they didn't exist because no one knew basically our world is like sometimes the ABA world amongst the mental health world is like an alien because we function completely different. We require different even resources. So when I was at the Harris Center, I ended up having to, well, not having to, but because I always want to set up my clients for success. Like I applied for three grants just to be able to buy VB Math and the Ables and the Afles, you know, skill assessments that we know that we need to, you know, get the baseline and see where they're currently at, but that stuff didn't exist. And we didn't even have like reinforcers. So it's like I end up getting up to $60,000 in grants throughout three years. Wow. And I use that just to buy basic ABA stuff because it wasn't relevant amongst a larger agency that's focused primarily on mental health.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Did you face a lot of resistance with that?

SPEAKER_03 35:49

I didn't actually. That's fantastic. Okay. Because I know how to write things down good. And you know, I guess that's the selling part of me as well. I should have been in sales. You know what?

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Maybe grant writing. It's different from sales. Grant writing is different. You don't have to make a pitch per se, right? You don't have to force somebody to buy it. Nobody has to be forced to give you the money. You're persuading them. It's a good thing. And I understand the difference. No, that's good too, because I mean it those are pretty traditional treatment settings where it would have been, you know, logical for ABA again to be the new kid at the table. It's like, no, whatever that stuff is. It it can seem a little bit maybe oversimplified, sometimes a little esoteric for people from more traditional psychology or mental health fields, but I'm glad to hear you didn't face any resistance. So you're you're brushing up your skills, you're writing grants, you've have been exposed to a whole slew of diagnoses. So now you're here at the Harris Center, you're feeling pretty good to go out on your own, I imagine. Where does this take you next?

SPEAKER_02 36:46

Before next, I got one question about the Harris Center. You said you worked with uh clients one hour a day or one hour a week?

SPEAKER_03 36:54

One hour a week. So it was one hour once a week, and it was a short-term uh program. So they would only be in the program for six months. And were and that was because the waiting list that we had was so long, some people would wait up to four years in order to be seen in my clinic. Because take in mind, we're the the mental health authority for the county.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

Were parents involved at all? Like with the ABA therapies and stuff?

SPEAKER_03 37:19

Was who involved?

SPEAKER_02 37:20

Parents.

SPEAKER_03 37:21

Yes. So that was also part when I would initially get a client there was telling the parents it's a short-term program, it's only six months. We're only providing one hour once a week. And so it was more so of a parent training model. So we're giving you some sometimes basic skills and resources and things to do with your kid. Sometimes while you're on a waiting list for somewhere else, that's you know, more of a long-term treatment and more hours, but we're gonna give you, you know, something to, you know, help you in the home with your kid while you're waiting. And so it was very more so like I'm gonna do the assessments, I'm gonna make the plan, I'm gonna allow you to watch me implement the plan. And now the roles are reversed, where I'm, you know, giving you feedback and training and coaching you through the implementation of the plan.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

I love it. Now, were you able to, in one hour a week over that six months, were you able to see a lot of progress with a lot of your clients?

SPEAKER_03 38:16

I was able to see progress. I would say a larger percentage when parents actually bought into the plan and implemented it. So as opposed to ones, it's like, okay, well, can you just do it because it only works when you do it? And I was like, that's fine. Being my step can do it. But what's more so important is when if they do it with you, because you know, they're with you, you know, seven days out of the week, 24 hours out of the day. They only see me once a week. So what really is gonna matter and be more so effective is you're practicing these skills, you know, on a daily basis or as much as possible. It's not what I do for one hour.

SPEAKER_02 38:52

Right. I feel like that's straight out of our pitch that we would for we've run our company for the last, well, not this company, the one that we started, but we basically ran a company prior and we were always like less is more. And what you said was essentially out of our pitch, you know, because parents would come in and they would hear about, I want 40 hours a week, somebody else gets 40 hours a week. And we're like, we could give you two hours a week or 40 hours a week. It's how much you do outside of this ABA session and how much involvement you have and belief you have into the system. So that's really cool to hear that they were able to make so much progress with one hour a week, but with so much parent involvement.

SPEAKER_03 39:28

Yeah, because that was always part of the initial conversation. It's like you only have six months and that's it. So what's gonna make a difference is really like what you how do you utilize that time. It's not what what I do.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

And and these this program was state funded, it wasn't private insurance. Is that am I gathering that correctly?

SPEAKER_03 39:47

Correct. It was state funded. Some a lot of the clients there had Medicaid. Some did do private pay. They did have commercial insurance as well. And so, but it was largely a Medicaid population.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

And around this time, that commercial insurance or that particular mandate, probably pretty new to Texas. I forget where where Texas came in with the insurance mandate. I mean, it it's all still relatively new, but yeah, at that point it sounds like everybody was getting uh used to understanding how the how the insurance payments worked and and how it fit into the ABA piece.

SPEAKER_03 40:19

Right. I believe it started Medicaid, Texas and Medicaid started in 2021, I believe. Oh, okay. Wow. Wow. Still fairly very new.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

Ours our insurance mandate was 2013. 2012. 2012.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

2012, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:33

Yeah, Texas was uh behind a lot.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

Well, California was um not as early as I would have expected, but I guess we were pretty early in that in that particular race there.

SPEAKER_02 40:42

One of the early adopters, yeah. Yeah. Let's see ya.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

Well, it's it's still I'm sure we'll get into it. It's still such a challenge to figure out the game and the idea of how many hours to recommend, uh, you know, now based on clinical significance or need, you know, versus the idea of being able to run a business and have enough clientele to keep yourself afloat. But we'll get back we'll get back into that later. All right, so you're you're at Harris County. Again, you're you're feeling uh confident, you've built up a whole bunch of skills, and now I imagine you're ready to branch off and your side hustles now may be coming to the forefront. Where does this take you next?

SPEAKER_03 41:19

So while I was still at the Harris Center, that's why I birthed the Behavioral Wellness Academy while I was still there. So, which I still of course do in expanding on. So it's just in-home or in school ABA therapy. And when I say school, it's not your ISDs. So schools that myself and my client, my staff go to are typically the private charter monetary schools.

SPEAKER_04 41:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 41:44

Because I'm not a vendor with the ISDs, it's you know, the ISDs are so regulated and all the things. So it's a lot easier for my staff to be able to go into the charter private monetary schools and do therapy there. They welcome us with open orange. So it's like, please, yes, you're here. Please help us.

SPEAKER_02 42:01

So you birthed Behavior Wellness Academy. Where did it birth from? What was the idea that you had? What was your like mission or goal? Where, yeah, where did that come from? Talk to us.

SPEAKER_03 42:11

So I would get calls all the time. So of course I'm still doing my full-time job, but I would always get people's like, okay, well, you know, I I can, I don't have time to actually go to a clinic. And, you know, the waiting list, you know, where you work at. I know you you've told me how long the waiting list is. Do you provide, you know, any additional services? And I'm thinking like, um, you know what? I can. Like, why not? And so it brands from just, of course, as we know, the need for just ADA in general. And more kids now are being diagnosed. And it's like, I'm a I'm a helper. And so I was like, you know what? I can do this. Like, ah, I could, you know, take on one or two clients, I could do it, and you know, and that that's it. And so it came from the initial need, and then, you know, just the passion I have for the field in general, with you know, knowing that there is this science that could, you know, help. I mean, it's very cliche, but change behavior. And so that's where it it started with one client and you know, two clients, and and now I'm still here. So families that's how it was birthed.

SPEAKER_02 43:19

Families knew you did a good job. They were on a wait list, they were like, Hey, what what are you doing? Like serve our kids a little bit more. That's kind of where it came from.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

Yeah, that's where it came from. And I'm I'm not a I never do any marketing or advertisement. I did all of my credentialing myself. It's a lot of word of mouth too. So it's like people that I went to college with or that I grew up with, or you know, see my social media. And I was like, okay, you work with kids with autism. I have a cousin's nephew that I'm gonna give their their number to. I was like, okay, well, that's fine. And you know, I end up having to, you know, hire people, RBTs to, you know, of course, help. And yeah, I mean, it's great. Because they're able to, you know, work outside of the traditional ABA clinic hours. A lot of my uh clients, they want hours, you know, after they don't, the parents don't want to take the kids out of school sometimes. And so they may have evening hours or weekend hours and those, you know, hours that are conducive to the RBT schedule as well. Still focused ABA, so not you know, the 40 hours of ABA, it may be 10 or it may be 20. Sure. Depending on, you know, what medical what they need at the time.

SPEAKER_02 44:30

Sometimes, like we just opened up our own ABA practice two years ago, for about 16 months. And sometimes if you want to do it your way or you want to do it what you think is the right way, you got to do it yourself.

SPEAKER_03 44:42

Yes. That too. Yeah, just like wanting to like with being in the field for so long and of course working, you know, for other people, other organizations, helping, you know, other people get rich or build their brand. It's like, okay, well, I'm doing all this for other people. Like, let me do it for myself.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Yeah. So you've got Behavioral Wellness Academy, and that's that's uh your current big project. What else are you doing concurrently with that?

SPEAKER_03 45:09

Yes. So once I left, I left the Harris Center in May, and I left there to basically be the chief clinical officer at a new ABA agency.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

May of last year, 2025?

SPEAKER_03 45:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 45:24

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_03 45:25

And so it's a new ABA agency called CODA, so community outreach and development for autism. So currently we're just doing ABA clinic now, but the goal is to branch off and basically do all things related to autism. So that could look like transportation services, that could possibly look like a charter school, that could look like different community events that are all related to the autism community.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

So with behavioral wellness, what is your primary funding? Is it primarily insurance? Is it Medicare or Medicaid through Texas? Like what is what does your funding look like there?

SPEAKER_03 46:00

Yes. So Medicaid and private commercial insurance. So I accept all insurance. So that's Medicaid, that's Blue Cross, Blue Shield, that's Aetna, that's Optum, United Healthcare. I'm credential with all of them.

SPEAKER_02 46:14

Nice. We are trying to get a network with Optum. That'll be an interesting one. But the reason I ask is so you mentioned that Medicaid is pr relatively new with Texas, right? Like 2021, you said?

SPEAKER_03 46:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

How do you find that our their level of stringency is? Do you find that they kind of allow you to do sessions the way that you want to do them? Or because sometimes insurances are very rigid. They're like, you need to have this many goals for this many hours, and the goals need to be here. And if you write the word homework, we're not going to pay you any money. So how do you find that a Medicaid is on the Texas side of things?

SPEAKER_03 46:49

I will start with saying that Medicaid requires a couple additional steps as it relates to the authorization process. And so sometimes ABA becomes very cumbersome with the initiation of it, just because, like, you know, we have to get the prior authorization. And with getting the prior authorization, we have to get additional forms signed from the medical doctor. Or initially it was just they had to be neurologists or a pediatrician, you know, they had to have an MD. A lot of times the kids that have an autism diagnosis, they got their diagnosis from the school or from the school psychologist. And so Medicaid wouldn't accept those evaluations. And so now the parent is trying to find like the medical doctor, the pediatrician or neurologist, in order to even get the evaluation, you know, completed. And then once that's done, they need the ABA referral, and then they need the Texas Medicaid has a specific form that the medical doctor has to sign off on as well. Okay. And so that's corresponding from basically the provider's office to the medical doctor's office, like, hey, I need you to sign this form in order for Texas Medicaid to approve it. And so the initiation of it is somewhat cumbersome. And sometimes parents lose hope, or you know, they're working throughout the day, they don't have time to go get their kid that evaluation done by the correct provider, and they may stop. And so sometimes I've seen like parents sometimes like even stop reaching out, even though they initially wanted services. And sometimes they do that, and this is a different conversation, but like the kid had a good week. And so they're like, Oh, you know, they're doing good. So, you know, they don't need ABA anymore. And then, like, the kid will have a behavioral episode like a month later, it's like, okay, well, they need it again. Like, you know, so so what do I need to do? And I was like, it's a process, like start over. Like, it doesn't work like that. Like, they can't, you can't decide that you want it like today, and they're gonna show up in clinic tomorrow, or my staff could go out and do a session tomorrow. Like, no, it's a whole process that you know can take weeks or you know, sometimes months to get approval.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

Is there a pretty well-established or what is what is pre-diagnostic early intervention look like in Texas? Is that something that's pretty common or that you're uh involved with? I ask a question and then I've got to take a pause as this concludes part one of our interview with Dr. Trinika Jefferson. Please make sure you come back for part two and always analyze responsible.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

ABA on tap is reported live and unfiltered. We're done for today. You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. See you next time.